• woelkchen@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Considering that Biden’s main competitor is an actual neonazi and the USA have an undemocratic election system that disadvantages all but two parties, there’s pretty much no choice but the senile grandpa who’s not a neonazi.

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    Still voting Biden, but this feels an awful lot like many past elections where people are holding their nose and voting for a candidate they don’t necessarily like just because they really don’t like the other candidate: Bush v Gore, Bush v Kerry, Clinton v Trump. Those elections never seem to turn out good.

  • mlg@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Biden loses

    OP blames the 5 tankies actually living in the USA for voting 3rd party

  • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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    In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.

    -Hannah Arendt, German-American philosopher and political theorist, in fuckin 1964 lmao. some things never change!

  • UncleGrandPa@lemmy.world
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    Íf he wore a clown suit and only spoke Pig-Latin during the debate… considering the alternative

    He would STILL be the only viable candidate worth voting for

  • Delusional@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Well when the only other vote is fascism, hate, and bullying… Yeah we’re gonna vote for the not ridiculous choice.

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    3 days ago

    This is some weird ass propaganda.

    The best thing that Biden ever did was just to not be Trump.

    Why are these memes so weirdly die-hard in the support of a man that is visibly unfit for the 4 years of presidency?

    No one is actually excited about old Joe. It’s just that he’s simply not Trump.

    It would be best if he steps down so that we can get a person in office that actually excites people for more than just not being the other guy.

  • Grayox@lemmy.ml
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    3 days ago

    I am a tankie and voting for Biden lmao. The Prolitariat must be protected till enough class conciousness is achieved for Socialism to succeed.

    • glitchdx@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      You sound like a rational tankie, which by the definitions that lemmies have explained to me, would make you not a tankie.

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        “Anyone who thinks themselves a tankie is too self aware to be one” sounds like one of those fallacies you’d learn about in highschool. (What is a tankie, btw? I’ve been too scared to ask…)*

        • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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          A tankie is, broadly, someone who wants to effect left-wing ideology using authoritarian methods. It originally referred to those who defended the USSR using tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution, but it could be aptly used to describe those who defend China’s actions in Tiananmen Square. It’s rightfully used as a perjorative, since authoritarian enforcement is antithetical to leftism, particularly communism.

          Tankies are hypocrites who didn’t understand their self-proclaimed ideologies. If someone’s idea of communist praxis is lining up dissenters for the firing squad, you’re dealing with a tankie.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            wants to effect left-wing ideology using authoritarian methods

            Odd. I’m getting called a tankie because I just won’t vote for Biden (or Trump). Someone must have gotten confused.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          I’m a tankie. What tankie is supposed to mean is someone who blindly supports anything anyone does so long as they claim to be communist and wave a red flag. There’s maybe a handful of edgy teens who actually fit that description, but the way it’s actually used is to punch left at anyone who supports anything a socialist country has ever done, or who is insufficiently patriotic/nationalistic and is willing to consider things from an internationalist perspective.

          If you say for example that Cuba under Castro had a successful literacy program, then there are people who will accuse you of being a tankie just for that. Because it gets used this way, some people like myself chose to reclaim the insult and wear it proudly.

          Generally, the actual term for most “tankies” would be Marxist-Leninist. But I actually prefer tankie because it’s a more general, big tent label. It’s used so broadly that even anarchists can be called tankies. It’s basically like “woke” where it doesn’t actually have any real meaning.

          • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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            Well I think there are probably a half dozen interpretations that people on Lemmy use. One I have heard repeated is that they view the Tiananmen Square event as something that China rightfully did… hence “Tankie”

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              The idea that that’s the origin of the term is a common misconception. The actual origin was about the USSR under Kruschev sending in the military in response to a rebellion in Hungary. Some British communists supported the move, while other communists opposed it and labeled the supporters as tankies.

              But regardless of the origin, it’s changed to where now it’s liberals using it to criticize socialists in general.

          • uis@lemm.ee
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            If you say for example that Cuba under Castro had a successful literacy program, then there are people who will accuse you of being a tankie just for that.

            $COUNTRY had a successful literacy program under $LEFT_GOVERMENT.

        • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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          Militant leftist, in the most basic sense.

          But anti-leftists tend to co-opt the term to replace ‘fascist’ or ‘nazi’ in their discourse.

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          People that are happy to run people over in tanks to force their communist version of society on everyone else.

        • glitchdx@lemmy.world
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          I am by no means an expert, but the test that was explained to me is that if you look at the famous tianamen square picture of the guy holding grocery bags facing down a line of tanks, and then proceed to side with the line of tanks, then you’re a tankie.

          When I say that I am not an expert, what I actually mean is that I’m a random idiot from the internet, so don’t take anything I say as gospel truth.

          I’ve only been on lemmy for a few months, and I’ve never heard the term tankie on any other platform. My understanding is that a tankie is a militant supporter of communism, who completely disregards (or is in support of) how every time it’s ever actually been done it turns into an authoritarian dictatorship (or something similarly unpleasant to live under).

          My own biases exposed: I am an american, and most of what I know I learned in the absolutely fucked american public education system, which says communism = evil, because of the red scare a while back.

          If you do some googling, there’s a wikipedia article on the subject. I’ve forgotten most of the content of that article shortly after I read it, I should look at it again and maybe it will stick this time.

    • NegativeInf@lemmy.world
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      And I’d vote for a corpse before I vote for 34 time Convicted Felon Donald Trump. Eat the rich. Pack the courts. Seize the assets of felonious companies.

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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      You get it! We can’t fuck over vulnerable people. We can’t abandon minorities and LGBT people. Even if we let things get worse to the point of a societal collapse, a lot of people will die because of it – and societal collapse has not historically led to better societies down the road.

      • Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
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        That’s such an important point. Anyone who thinks a win by Trump will somehow speed up the advent of socialism is just deluded.

        • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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          People think Trump will eventually make things so bad that the average man will salivate at the chance for Socialist rule…

          What will actually happen if you get a nasty concoction made from a pinch of Handmaid’s Tale with a dash of Holocaust 2…

          And the average man won’t care, as long as the trains run on time and they owned the libs… and if the trains don’t run on time, they probably have libs to blame.

      • BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world
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        My trans friends are what keeps me committed to voting Biden no matter how disappointed I am in him. Things are already really scary for them right now and I can’t be complicit in making them worse, even through inaction.

        • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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          Consider me another one of your trans friends. If Trump gets elected I’m probably gonna die in a concentration camp. Don’t do that to me, don’t do that to them. I’m begging you for my life.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          I am trans and not voting for Biden. I refuse to sacrifice Palestinians for my own safety or the safety of my loved ones. All the stuff people say now about them being an acceptable sacrifice or there being nothing they can do about it, that’s what they’ll be saying about us tomorrow. Solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable strategy for long term survival.

          I hate being used as a rhetorical token to make people feel better about selling out another vulnerable group.

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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            Trans people are not a monolith. There’s other trans people in this thread begging us to vote for Biden for their safety. Your feelings about being a rhetorical token are not invalid, but recognize that other people in your vulnerable group are legitimately crying out for help.

            Either way, I’m glad I’m not one of your loved ones. Your own safety is one thing. Their safety is another.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              They’re entitled to their views, as I am to mine.

              I will do whatever I can to protect my loved ones and ensure they retain access to their meds. But I cannot go against the dictates of my conscience. And as I said, in the long term, solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable path forward and I will not sacrifice that long term strategy for some fleeting, half-hearted protection. In fact I’ve already seen people applying the “lesser evil” argument to sacrificing trans rights since I posted this. Only by uniting and drawing a red line do we have a chance in the long run.

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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            I respect this decision. But, I’m selfishly voting for Biden. Trump’s first term stressed me out.

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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                Thoughtful, educated and informed voting decisions should be respected. Shame on this duopoly for forcing its electorate to choose between tacit support for a genocide, and outright fascism.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  Thank you. I have to vote according to my conscience and what I believe is right, but if someone else’s conscience tells them differently, I can make my case but ultimately it is their decision to make. So many people on here expect everyone to think and see things the exact same way as them and can’t even seem to imagine someone having different values or a different perspective, and that can be very frustrating.

          • drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world
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            If you actually cared you would vote biden. No one capable of it will save the Palestinians. None. At least with biden someone survives.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              If our “democracy” has decayed to the point where I’m not able to vote on whether or not we do a genocide, then it is not a democracy and I should not legitimize the sham through participation.

              There is no circumstance under which I will support genocide. If that means I die, then I will die. If any of you had a backbone you’d do the same. And if enough people drew that line, they’d have no choice but to listen to us.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  Oh, does Biden support ranked choice voting, then?

                  He doesn’t. I’m not going to support asshole after asshole in the vain hope that maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they’ll eventually give us freedom, which directly opposes their own interests. You’re the one that needs to grow up if you believe that fairy tale.

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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        Right? Imagine it’s a fucking Saw Trap, and there’s an easy way out without sacrificing anyone… and an equally easy way out sacrificing everyone. Make the less sociopathic choice.

      • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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        Biden is literally arming a genocide. He was even adamant about his continued support for that. Meanwhile Dems led cities have brutally beaten up peaceful colelge protests and invited fascist MAGA mobs to attack minority students there.

        The DNC and Biden do not protect minorities. They are white supremacists with just a bit more moderation to the means they employ, but they will absolutely resort to authoritarian crackdowns if they feel the minorities to step out of line by demanding justice and rights.

    • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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      On one hand I’d like it if the Democrats put up someone more certain to beat Trump. On the other Joe has shown he supports labor and things are moving in the right direction in that regard. I’d hate it if he we get a corpo Democrat that halts this progress.

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      The Prolitariat must be protected

      By consenting to corruption and a path to WWIII. That is not protecting them, in fact it is ensuring them a terrible future. If you cared about them, you would vote, volunteer, donate, and support the PSL, CPUSA, or Green party instead.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        Lmao the green party isn’t going to do jack shit. They’re completely unserious about politics. They aren’t even trying to build up an infrastructure in all 50 states that lets them get suffused into local and state politics. They aren’t even aiming for Congressional seats, which would be necessary for an actual Green president to get anything done.

        They’re just anti science grifters who think wifi causes cancer, entertain vaccine skepticism, and demonize nuclear energy – the latter of which could be a major asset to stopping global warming. Newer designs are even able to consume nuclear waste, meaning an anti nuclear position results in more waste than we would otherwise.

        • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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          I actually had my local Socialist Party USA chapter kick me out, ban me from their facebook, and publicly announce that I’m a rape apologist because I wouldn’t tell people to support an openly transphobic “Vaccines Cause Autism” Green Party candidate over Joe Biden.

        • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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          Then support the PSL. I work with the Green party to improve it, because that’s how democracy works. It’s okay you don’t understand that.

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            I’m afraid all of us don’t have that much free time. But hey, if you can get them to stop being anti science and actually become a serious party, I’ll consider them.

            Just don’t expect me to accept the Green Party’s many imperfections. If you don’t accept the Democrat’s imperfections, then you should perfectly understand.

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              Send them an email and discuss your issues. They are the only voice in politics that supports the science of climate change.

              Democrats don’t have imperfections, they are fundamentally flawed because they are corrupt.

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                Until Stein vehemently recants her remarks about WiFi causing cancer, vaccine skepticism, and nuclear fear mongering – or the Green party completely disavows her and those remarks – it would be a total waste of time.

                It isn’t my job as an engineer to tell “the only voice in politics that supports the science of climate change” to stop endorsing completely anti science positions. Nor is it on me to try and correct a willfully anti science party. They need to show good faith, and they’ve done nothing whatsoever to suggest any of that to me.

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        None of those parties have a ghost of a chance of winning, and with as razor thin as the win margins were in 2016 and 2020, I’m not confident Biden will win if we don’t vote for him. I sincerely hope I do not have to explain why Trump would be worse on literally every issue (especially Gaza) than Biden is.

        • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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          Then do something about it instead of complain. I am, what are you doing? You vote for corruption.

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            Bro’s protest voting when the Weimar American Republic has Nazis on the ballot and thinks building “grassroots support” for the twentieth year in a row justifies it when the world is about to run out of time anyways

            You want Green candidates? Tell them to run as Democrats or make a fucking militia.

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              Dems are actually fascists, and you are as well for not only voting for them, but gathering support for them online when you could be doing that for a decent party.

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                Yes, yes, we all know what happens when you scratch a liberal but it’s better than not having to scratch to find it. Even if all that’s holding the powers that be back is a skin-deep veneer of civility and deniability a vote to strip that veneer away makes you a fool, not a revolutionary.

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                  it’s better than not having to scratch to find it.

                  There’s no need to scratch. They openly support the genocide of children.

                  The real fool is the one that puts no effort into change.

              • pivot_root@lemmy.world
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                The Democrat party is just as corrupt and bought out by corporations as the Republicans are, but at least they aren’t trying to get the country to circle the drain as quickly.

          • Nelots@lemm.ee
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            Nobody likes voting for the lesser of two evils, but we all have to if we want to stop an even further decline into hell. Our system is broken, and we don’t have any way of fixing it immediately, so we have to work with what we can. Trump as president will have immediate and direct consequences for many people, and it will be the fault of people like you that it happened. At this point, not voting for Biden is the same thing as voting for Trump. You may continue virtue signaling after we get through the crisis right in front of us.

            • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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              You’re not voting for the lesser of two evils, you are voting for corruption and evil while doing absolutely nothing about it.

              • pivot_root@lemmy.world
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                The system is set up in a way that the only viable options are between two evils, unfortunately. Under a FPTP system where the only good options are minority parties that won’t win a single seat in their districts, you’re left with the choice of voting for the lesser evil, or voting for your morals but increasing the risk of the greater evil winning.

                It’s a no-win situation.

                • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                  No, you can vote for whoever you want. You all on here are too lazy to gather support for another party.

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                You’re voting for no one, giving more of a chance for the greater of two evils and still doing nothing. Where your fucking guillotine?

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    Yeah… sure. Not a tankie, I’m European and don’t care about influencing you to vote for one or another. But after seeing Biden “debate” Trump I know the dems are fucked. I mean sure, still go out and vote, but I honestly don’t see many people doing so.

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    I think the real upsetting thing isn’t Biden’s performance, or having Biden as president for four more years. He achieved quite a bit after all. The real upsetting thing is the DNC being such cunts that they even pushed for this debate, hoping that Biden could win, only to deny and ignore Biden’s abhorrent performance immediately after. That Bernie got shafted twice by them, that is the really upsetting part.

    • whocares314@lemmy.world
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      It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win. None of the shitty things that Trump wants to do will hurt them, (stupid take if they cared at all about their descendants but they’re either too arrogant or too ignorant to worry about that) but actual progressive policies that helped average people WOULD hurt their way of life. Marginally. Like, the tiniest little amount. Like, your yacht can only have one master bedroom instead of four. But why give that up when you don’t have to?

      “It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it”

      I’m voting for Biden though, and I’ll keep voting as progressively as possible in the down ballot elections. If a progressive movement from the bottom up can start by doing things like getting rid of FPTP, we still have a chance. And to anyone thinking about not voting, please do. The president is one person. They are the single most powerful person individually, (taking aside impact on the judicial system) but the collective impact on your day to day life is far more influenced by down ballot positions. Research your down ballot candidates and vote. Many of those races are decided by only a handful of votes. Yours matters.

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        DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win

        This was made perfectly clear in 2016 when Hillary stole the nom by colluding with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

        If people haven’t caught on by now, they haven’t been paying attention. Or are just willfully ignorant.

      • pivot_root@lemmy.world
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        It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win.

        It’s not in their interests to let a progressive win. Just like their counterpart, the DNC takes a shit ton of bribery donations from corporations lobbyists. Bringing in a progressive who would reform the system or push back against pro-corporate policies is biting the hands that feed them.

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        The title of this video is “An Anarchistic Watches West Wing” or something similar. I only watched 20mins but it was good so far. It’s a criticism of the American Capitalist system, American Democracy (power of the president, presidential hero worship), etc. via the way it’s portrayed in the West Wing.

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          Aye. The timestamp I linked specifically talks about something talked about in this thread, which is that the DNC would rather have the far right win than move left.

          • Pandantic@midwest.social
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            2 days ago

            I’m using my app’s built in video player and I guess it didn’t recognize the time stamp. I wanted to give people an idea of the context because I think it’s worth a watch. I’ll give that timestamped portion a watch later.