Any settement that doesn’t penalize non-reactive cops is too little, imo.
ITT: I never thought I’d have to tag users as “Uvalde Apologists”
Can we tag users? How? I just block all apologists for all heinous shite.
I do it through sync not sure what other apps have that function. It’s only for your personal viewing and I tend not to block people because I want to see the comment for the drama, but now I know not to interact with that person.
So it’s a feature of the app you’re using and not Lemmy itself? I think having a tagging functionality would also be good for Lemmy.
It gets misused ala reddit block list which seemed like a good idea but was co-opted to mean, anyone a small set of users disagreed with. Auto ban from half the sub reddits.
…no? We’re talking about personal tagging, only you the user can see those tags
Do you know what I was talking about? No. This is a block list that was shared so you could (what’s the word?) automatically fill your blocklist with a disapproved group of people. This is basically letting someone defederate for you.
That may be what YOU were talking about. That is not what WE, the rest of the people in this comment thread, were talking about.
[email protected] - I think having a tagging functionality would also be good for Lemmy.
[email protected] - It gets misused ala reddit block list which seemed like a good idea but was co-opted to mean, anyone a small set of users disagreed with. Auto ban from half the sub reddits.
You brought a “block list” into this convo where we were discussing user made tags that only the user who made the tag can see and aren’t shared and spread to others…
What bothers me most about this is the huge amount of ignorance all sides have on this subject.
The issue IMO, is the fucking AR-15. Police Officers immediately went in when they knew there were problems, but when the subject had an AR-15 that could literally shoot through school walls (ie: Police Officers were outgunned and out-matched), they retreated.
Yes, there was a few hours where they were too scared to do anything, further traumatizing the children / teachers. But this is fucking it. Talk about the firepower and the tactical decision to retreat.
Handguns CANNOT compete against an AR15. The AR15 has superior power, penetration, and accuracy. The officers made the right decision to retreat, regroup, and further come up with a new plan initially. Though their cowardice in the face of the AR15 is what needs to be highlighted most of all.
There’s nothing wrong with being scared of a bigger, more accurate, more powerful gun with more ammunition. If they truly were outgunned, then retreat was the best option (otherwise, officers would have died and that would have forced a retreat while carrying a slain officer around, a much harder task). Shit gets bad to worse in a combat situation if you don’t outgun the opponent.
Dinky handguns won’t do shit against the body armor of the attacker either.
This is literally the case where liberals need to come together, understand the mechanics of the gun involved and push for better gun control laws. If officers in Texas get outgunned and are forced to retreat, then support those officers and push for gun legislation. Everyone knows these bigger guns serve as cop-killers and ultimately fuck our society over. Just quit being dumbass snowflakes about blue-lives-matter or pro-Police stances or whatever.
Being pro-Police here AND anti-gun is the right move in this case. But instead, Liberals fuck over their own politics because they’re too braindead to play their cards right.
Conservatives clearly care more about guns than Police Officers. Punish the Conservative view ya pansies.
There is zero reason to be pro-police here.
And who gives a fuck about the weapon used. That does not excuse their lack of action.
Rightists always have such misguided takes.
And who gives a fuck about the weapon used. That does not excuse their lack of action.
Pistols don’t beat AR15 rifles. If the opponent outguns you, you need to wait for backup and bigger guns. Basic tactics.
And if everyone is using big guns during a hostage situation, the “Good Guys” have a huge disadvantage due to the penetrative effects of powerful guns. Good Guys don’t want to kill children with missed (or even hit) shots. A headshot vs the shooter would not only penetrate the shooter’s skull, but also the wall behind the shooter. A wall that you’re not sure if the children or the teachers of the school were hiding behind yet.
Pistols don’t beat AR15 rifles. If the opponent outguns you, you need to wait for backup and bigger guns.
Why is that? Does the AR15 generate a forcefield around the person wielding it making the shooter immune to any “lesser” weapons? Catching a bullet from a pistol will kill you just the same and this shooter was severely outnumbered. What police lacked was the guts to actually put their lives on the line to protect these children, even though they love to talk about how they put their lives on the line every day as they arrest people for weed or hand out tickets for going 5MPH over the speed limit.
Does the AR15 generate a forcefield around the person wielding it making the shooter immune to any “lesser” weapons?
Yes. Its called effective firing range.
A typical pistol (ex M1911) has an effective range of 50m and only when you’ve got very good practice. A typical AR15 has an effective range of 550 meters (11x the range).
The effective range is a measurement of the accuracy of the shot. In effect, if you have an AR15 at 100 meters, you’ve got better accuracy than a cop at 10meters. (Effective firing range is mostly about accuracy and bullet placement. Rifles are much, much, much more accurate than pistols)
Learn to tactics bro. Rifle range and accuracy is a real thing. You don’t fight enemies with rifles if you only got a pistol dude. Furthermore, you don’t spray-and-pray with inaccurate pistols when there’s lol hostages in the same room as the shooter.
This isn’t a video game. This isn’t a comic book where “the main character” holding a damn pistol has more accuracy than enemy riflemen. This is real life.
You are talking about a school. Effective range doesn’t much matter past 25 meters. They are clearing rooms, not football stadiums.
And there is precedent for shorter range weapons being more optimal. Knife vs gun for instance https://youtu.be/Upxfo_jBrDE
You are talking about a school. Effective range doesn’t much matter past 25 meters.
I guarantee you that an AR15 will shoot quicker, more accurately, and with more penetration even at as short at 10 meters vs a pistol. And probably with a larger magazine to boot (fewer shots on the pistols).
The fact that you’re arguing otherwise is a misunderstanding and/or ignorance of basic gun tactics. At any range, the AR15 is a superior weapon. 500 meters, 50 meters, 10 meters, 5 meters. AR15 always is better. Especially when body-armor is in play so that penetrating effect is even a bigger deal.
Speaking as a combat marksmanship coach for the Marines. I respectfully disagree with you in this instance.
Your facts while mostly true in a void do not account for training, tactics or the situation.
If i was standing next to someone that has an ar15 i would take a pistol or a knife all day. That AR can’t do jack if i grab the barrel and point it away from me.
Yes. Its called effective firing range.
The Uvalde school shooting occurred in a school.
Not particularly long looking hallways.
Besides the department had the choice to make the situation pistol vs rifle (to use your paradigm) instead they left it unarmed vs rifle.
Besides the department had the choice to make the situation pistol vs rifle (to use your paradigm) instead they left it unarmed vs rifle.
They cornered the shooter, and then waited for SWAT (the actual combat specialists of the police force). SWAT team took too long afterward, but the initial police response was quite heroic as far as I can see. The initial police did what they could with inferior weapons and less knowledge and less training.
This initial skirmish from 11:35am to 11:40am seemed to be fine. The long wait for SWAT after 11:40am is really where things get more ambiguous, but I will not support regular officers charging into these situations without training and armed with mostly pistols at that. If we do that, then we’re accepting a significant escalation of warrior-cop mentality and expecting cops to have far more deadly-arms training than I’m honestly comfortable with.
Police have all the tools in the world there is no excuse for their lack of action while children are being killed.
No they don’t and Cops shouldn’t have those tools.
I’d be far more comfortable if in these cases of national emergency, the National Guard showed up with actual heavy weapon experience and training. SWAT is a decent compromise (a few units of specialized / highly trained cops). But we should not make the “typical” cop go down the journey towards warrior / soldier.
If the typical cop can’t be expected to uphold their duty to protect and serve then they don’t need to be a cop. I do not care if American courts have suddenly decided that the oath and slogan used my police for decades is not binding.
They don’t need bigger or better weapons, they need brains. They had access to cameras in the building. They knew and could have tracked the gunman using those. Set up around two corners near them, team 1 supresses to distract then team two takes out the gunman. Deploying the national guard would take too long, and not all cities have a swat team.
If “typical” cops aren’t expected to risk their safety, then I expect them to take a “typical” paycut. Actually maybe that’s what should happen. Separate real police and law enforcement. Real police get firearms and responsibilities, law enforcement can worry about tickets and fines.
The police already cornered the guy by 11:40am. The question was the final breaching operation, which was left to the SWAT team.
and not all cities have a swat team.
Uvalde brought in the SWAT team in this instance. The end. They had access to SWAT.
If “typical” cops aren’t expected to risk their safety, then I expect them to take a “typical” paycut.
These Uvalde dudes are being paid like $50k/year or some shit. They’d make more as truck drivers than as Police Officers.
they need brains.
You’re not getting brains with these wages. Anyone smarter would have left for far better jobs with far lower stress.
