The West offered Zelwnsky a way out and to give up the moment the war started.
What? The west (and especially Boris Johnson) encouraged Zelensky to fight and encouraged him to drop the peace proposal (which included Russia going back to pre-2022 invasion borders!).
He and his country refused
Just “He”.
How exactly did the west force Ukraine to fight?
The west supports Zelensky’s regime, which kidnaps people on the streets and sends them to die.
Zelensky could have fled. He refused. Ukrainians could have surrendered, they refused surprising everyone. Putin will never stop unless he is stopped. To support Ukraine surrendering is to support many many more Ukrainian deaths in the future.
No. We don’t have a choice. We cannot even choose our president, much less choosing to end the war. We cannot speak out against our government (except anonymously like I do). People cannot even fucking leave their houses without fear of being kidnapped.
Then go to Russia, I’m sure they’d be more than willing to send you to the front to kill your fellow Ukrainian brothers and sisters, and it’ll get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
Wtf is the point of your comment chain? I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media. The same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Ukraine was invaded, and the country chose to defend itself as opposed to roll over and take Putin’s boot on their throat. The invasion was begun under a completely fabricated claim about historical Russian boundaries. Zelensky and Ukraine have, to me, been nothing but up front about their motives, their rationale, and pride they have for their country.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians, but then again, it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck than a Ukrainian uniform on your shoulders. Cowardly, and pathetic. I wouldn’t spit in your direction, it’d be an insult to the spit.
I fucking hate them…
Almost the entire Lemmy (with an exception of a few .ml and other instances) is telling me how I and my compatriots are happily dying for our glorious master Zelensky, while in reality we have to hide and/or flee, because we just want to live…
I don’t know if they are truly evil and sadistic or just brainwashed by propaganda… What the fuck did we do to them to deserve this treatment??..
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who don’t support this sadistic bullshit…
The prick is clearly an ex-american drone operator who thinks you should take pride in dying for some douchebag upper class ghoul like biden, zelensky or whatever genocider they stan currently.
Dont worry about it, they probably have various stages of PTSD from all the kids they blew up during the gulf wars and will either kill themselves or there famalies within the next 10 years.
If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media.
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
The same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same. They have conscription, but they don’t fucking kidnap people from the streets (or at least on a way smaller scale…) and they don’t turn their country into a mass prison that you can’t leave.
and the country chose to defend itself
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians
My Ukrainian “brothers” either already escaped Ukraine, or are trying to, or just trying to survive there. The “sisters” left a long time ago.
it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck
What “Russian boot”? I might have missed what happened to people in Crimea, living under “Russian boot” for 10 years now… How many have died or been repressed? From Russia’s hand I mean, not from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea…
But I mean yeah, obviously I’d prefer living under Russian boot than under Ukrainian boot, with Russian boot at least I’d not fear being kidnapped on the street and sent to die, and being able to freely leave a country sounds nice as well…
If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
So again, pathetic and a coward, assuming you’re from Ukraine at all, Comrade. 🙄
Huh, a country being invaded needs men to fight, who would’ve fucking thought. So what’s your solution? End the war and let Russia have their way? Makes sense, it doesn’t affect you in the slightest as a coward who fled his homeland and now comes online to trash it and defend the invaders.
Pathetic coward.
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
Right, so if the West stopped supplying arms to Ukraine to defend themselves against an unlawful aggressor, Russia will immediately stop the invasion?
Tell me, is that why Ukraine’s military chooses to bomb and seek out strategic resources for their attacks, while Russia bombs apartment buildings and city centers? Yep, must be that pesky western influence that wants to check notes stop the authoritarian creep of Russia as they attempt to reclaim their Soviet satellite states.
You’re right, the West is to blame for Russia invading another country, raping, and slaughtering its people. I’m sure the people being killed and injured in Russia’s bombing attacks really wish the Russians would just take over already and turn them into second-class citizens, at fucking best.
Pathetic coward.
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same.
No, you are, because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be defending Russia at all in any of this, because they are 100% in the wrong, from start to finish. And yes, they are doing exactly the same thing. Russia has pulled people out of their prisons and sent them to the front lines, so do they not count as people to you, because they’re prisoners?
Russia has also been sending captured Ukrainian troops to the front lines, along with kidnapping their own men off the streets and sending them into battle with few supplies, if any. Like, are you fucking dense, man? Eyes wide shut kind of thing?
Pathetic coward.
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
Zelensky was elected by the Ukrainian people, it’s not a fucking regime. And he went to war with the backing of his people. I’m sorry Ukraine was the first target Russia had in their quest to reclaim the glory that was the Soviet Union 🙄 But they are, and they could have chosen to bend the knee to Russia, or rightfully, defend themselves.
They, the people of Ukraine, chose to defend themselves, so fuck right off with this “Zelensky evil dictator” bullshit. He’s not, he’s just fucking not. If the people of Ukraine didn’t want to defend their homeland, the troops would just surrender instead of fighting back, and they’re fucking not.
So fuck right off, you pathetic coward, and I feel sorry for whatever country your cowardly ass ended up in. Hope they’re never invaded, we’ll all know the first person will be that starts sucking his invaders cocks down to the balls.
It’s not my battle, my country wasn’t invaded. His was, but he had already left, and refuses to go back and help, but defends the people invading his country. That’s pathetic and cowardly, and spoken by someone in a position of privilege from foreign soil (again, he left before the invasion) but claims to speak for his countrymen and women actually living through the atrocities and attacks.
My country is supplying military aid to Ukraine via my tax dollars, so while I’m not directly fighting, my country and myself are assisting them in their effort to defend themselves against an unjustified invasion.
I am a veteran of my country’s armed services, can you say the same?
I also never told him to go fight, but it seems pathetic and cowardly to sit behind a computer screen in another country, claim to speak on behalf of your home nation while propagating Russian-media talking points. So I stand by what I’ve said.
Do you think we’d be sending them weapons (and buying up their assets for pennies) if this battle wasn’t yours?
My country is supplying military aid to Ukraine via my tax dollars
They’ve also supported Israel. By that logic, you, personally are assisting them in genocide.
I am a veteran of my country’s armed services, can you say the same?
I will serve crack before I serve this country. Look at every military action in this country’s history since WWII. In none of them were we the good guys.
I also never told him to go fight
Oh fuck off. He knows more about the situation than you do. He is right there experiencing it.
Cede to Russian demands on a sovereign nation they have hostily invaded.
Russia was “prepared to end the war if we agreed to,—as Finland once did,—neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO.” He importantly adds that the NATO promise was the “key point” for Russia and that “Everything else was simply rhetoric and political ‘seasoning’.”
Your source refutes your bullshit “Western pressure” argument, Russian pressure was to literally invade and try to use Ukrainian territory to leverage against Ukraine.
Arakhamiya is the third well placed official to make the claim that Russia’s primary reason for invading Ukraine was to stop NATO expansion east to its borders and, particularly, Ukraine’s NATO aspirations.
Your source essentially ignores that the war could have “stopped” before it started off Russia didn’t choose to invade a sovereign nation specifically to spite NATO. But no, you’re right I’m sure if they just stop fighting and roll over Russia certainly won’t invade again and pull the same shit again.
Your idealism or stupidity is almost admirably idiotic.
Your source refutes your bullshit “Western pressure” argument, Russian pressure was to literally invade and try to use Ukrainian territory to leverage against Ukraine.
Quote needed :)
I’ve said that the west encouraged Zelensky to fight, and the part you’ve linked doesn’t refute it.
if they just stop fighting
“They” can fight all they want, till the last person standing if they want. They are forcing other people to fight for them though.
What? The west (and especially Boris Johnson) encouraged Zelensky to fight and encouraged him to drop the peace proposal (which included Russia going back to pre-2022 invasion borders!).
Just “He”.
The west supports Zelensky’s regime, which kidnaps people on the streets and sends them to die.
Zelensky could have fled. He refused. Ukrainians could have surrendered, they refused surprising everyone. Putin will never stop unless he is stopped. To support Ukraine surrendering is to support many many more Ukrainian deaths in the future.
No. We don’t have a choice. We cannot even choose our president, much less choosing to end the war. We cannot speak out against our government (except anonymously like I do). People cannot even fucking leave their houses without fear of being kidnapped.
Then go to Russia, I’m sure they’d be more than willing to send you to the front to kill your fellow Ukrainian brothers and sisters, and it’ll get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
Wtf is the point of your comment chain? I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media. The same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Ukraine was invaded, and the country chose to defend itself as opposed to roll over and take Putin’s boot on their throat. The invasion was begun under a completely fabricated claim about historical Russian boundaries. Zelensky and Ukraine have, to me, been nothing but up front about their motives, their rationale, and pride they have for their country.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians, but then again, it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck than a Ukrainian uniform on your shoulders. Cowardly, and pathetic. I wouldn’t spit in your direction, it’d be an insult to the spit.
lemmy worlds least deranged person telling an actual ukranian they should be happy to die for zelensky lmao
I fucking hate them…
Almost the entire Lemmy (with an exception of a few .ml and other instances) is telling me how I and my compatriots are happily dying for our glorious master Zelensky, while in reality we have to hide and/or flee, because we just want to live…
I don’t know if they are truly evil and sadistic or just brainwashed by propaganda… What the fuck did we do to them to deserve this treatment??..
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who don’t support this sadistic bullshit…
The prick is clearly an ex-american drone operator who thinks you should take pride in dying for some douchebag upper class ghoul like biden, zelensky or whatever genocider they stan currently.
Dont worry about it, they probably have various stages of PTSD from all the kids they blew up during the gulf wars and will either kill themselves or there famalies within the next 10 years.
If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
Supposedly?? What the hell do you mean by that? https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
And in the next sentence you say:
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
Here is an archive with tons of videos of kidnapping people: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
And inb4 you claim that this is Russian propaganda, here are links to other websites just with less content:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same. They have conscription, but they don’t fucking kidnap people from the streets (or at least on a way smaller scale…) and they don’t turn their country into a mass prison that you can’t leave.
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
My Ukrainian “brothers” either already escaped Ukraine, or are trying to, or just trying to survive there. The “sisters” left a long time ago.
What “Russian boot”? I might have missed what happened to people in Crimea, living under “Russian boot” for 10 years now… How many have died or been repressed? From Russia’s hand I mean, not from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea…
But I mean yeah, obviously I’d prefer living under Russian boot than under Ukrainian boot, with Russian boot at least I’d not fear being kidnapped on the street and sent to die, and being able to freely leave a country sounds nice as well…
So again, pathetic and a coward, assuming you’re from Ukraine at all, Comrade. 🙄
Huh, a country being invaded needs men to fight, who would’ve fucking thought. So what’s your solution? End the war and let Russia have their way? Makes sense, it doesn’t affect you in the slightest as a coward who fled his homeland and now comes online to trash it and defend the invaders.
Pathetic coward.
Right, so if the West stopped supplying arms to Ukraine to defend themselves against an unlawful aggressor, Russia will immediately stop the invasion?
Tell me, is that why Ukraine’s military chooses to bomb and seek out strategic resources for their attacks, while Russia bombs apartment buildings and city centers? Yep, must be that pesky western influence that wants to check notes stop the authoritarian creep of Russia as they attempt to reclaim their Soviet satellite states.
You’re right, the West is to blame for Russia invading another country, raping, and slaughtering its people. I’m sure the people being killed and injured in Russia’s bombing attacks really wish the Russians would just take over already and turn them into second-class citizens, at fucking best.
Pathetic coward.
No, you are, because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be defending Russia at all in any of this, because they are 100% in the wrong, from start to finish. And yes, they are doing exactly the same thing. Russia has pulled people out of their prisons and sent them to the front lines, so do they not count as people to you, because they’re prisoners?
Russia has also been sending captured Ukrainian troops to the front lines, along with kidnapping their own men off the streets and sending them into battle with few supplies, if any. Like, are you fucking dense, man? Eyes wide shut kind of thing?
Pathetic coward.
Zelensky was elected by the Ukrainian people, it’s not a fucking regime. And he went to war with the backing of his people. I’m sorry Ukraine was the first target Russia had in their quest to reclaim the glory that was the Soviet Union 🙄 But they are, and they could have chosen to bend the knee to Russia, or rightfully, defend themselves.
They, the people of Ukraine, chose to defend themselves, so fuck right off with this “Zelensky evil dictator” bullshit. He’s not, he’s just fucking not. If the people of Ukraine didn’t want to defend their homeland, the troops would just surrender instead of fighting back, and they’re fucking not.
So fuck right off, you pathetic coward, and I feel sorry for whatever country your cowardly ass ended up in. Hope they’re never invaded, we’ll all know the first person will be that starts sucking his invaders cocks down to the balls.
Oh well, writing more responses to you wouldn’t make sense, clearly you’re only here for personal attacks :/
At least I’m not selling out my supposed homeland to their invaders.
Pathetic coward.
‘pathetic coward’ as he berates someone for not going into a meat grinder to die for someone who wont hold elections
Sure is brave of you to call people cowards for not fighting your battle.
Why don’t you go to Ukraine and fight?
It’s not my battle, my country wasn’t invaded. His was, but he had already left, and refuses to go back and help, but defends the people invading his country. That’s pathetic and cowardly, and spoken by someone in a position of privilege from foreign soil (again, he left before the invasion) but claims to speak for his countrymen and women actually living through the atrocities and attacks.
My country is supplying military aid to Ukraine via my tax dollars, so while I’m not directly fighting, my country and myself are assisting them in their effort to defend themselves against an unjustified invasion.
I am a veteran of my country’s armed services, can you say the same?
I also never told him to go fight, but it seems pathetic and cowardly to sit behind a computer screen in another country, claim to speak on behalf of your home nation while propagating Russian-media talking points. So I stand by what I’ve said.
Do you think we’d be sending them weapons (and buying up their assets for pennies) if this battle wasn’t yours?
They’ve also supported Israel. By that logic, you, personally are assisting them in genocide.
I will serve crack before I serve this country. Look at every military action in this country’s history since WWII. In none of them were we the good guys.
Oh fuck off. He knows more about the situation than you do. He is right there experiencing it.
I think he didn’t get it, he need to be reminded a few more times of how much pathetic and coward he is
I would love to see the source on that.
Sure! :)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/bad-advice-ukraine-then-and-now/
Neither of those say Russia was willing to agree to pre 2022 borders.
Try again.
It quite literally says that (I assume its “willing” instead of “winning”), also linking to a source… Quote:
Cede to Russian demands on a sovereign nation they have hostily invaded.
Your source refutes your bullshit “Western pressure” argument, Russian pressure was to literally invade and try to use Ukrainian territory to leverage against Ukraine.
Your source essentially ignores that the war could have “stopped” before it started off Russia didn’t choose to invade a sovereign nation specifically to spite NATO. But no, you’re right I’m sure if they just stop fighting and roll over Russia certainly won’t invade again and pull the same shit again.
Your idealism or stupidity is almost admirably idiotic.
Quote needed :)
I’ve said that the west encouraged Zelensky to fight, and the part you’ve linked doesn’t refute it.
“They” can fight all they want, till the last person standing if they want. They are forcing other people to fight for them though.
Removed by mod
I don’t understand what this means. Who says what?